Winning By Design | Jacco van der Kooij, Founder of Sales As A Science #SaaSGrowth2018

Good morning everyone my name is Jacco van der Kooij, I’m Dutch, the youngest of 8, a farmers’ family, from the south of the Netherlands, and you know one of the things that I’m going to share with you today is some of the best practices I learned. But you have to put that in a little bit in a perspective okay you have to understand that its youngest of eight what I used to do all the way up till 20 to 23 years old was fry french fries; my family didn’t have a very glamorous one it was just frying french fries in the store, they lost that store over time and then you know I started doing it for other friends as a summer job, creating milkshakes and frying french fries that is the where I’m coming from. I learned and when I went all word with the company called Philips that took me around the world and I landed in a spot called Silicon Valley, by somewhat of an accident and what I saw there were some really really great things, some really really bad things but I saw that that was a huge disconnect, today I’m gonna help you so you don’t cover that disconnect.

I’m gonna first start with you is and I’m gonna first maybe you can help me a little bit I won’t you know whoever has that ability ask me a question about my background, and ask me a question what you want to know about me, about my ideas on sales and so on. Please a question now otherwise I’ll ping somebody from the audience I’m really decent and I’m gonna come into that so big person what do you want to know from me that’s the reason I’m asking you for this.

Yes a volunteer may what would you like to know from me? What is the relationship between french fries and sales? That relationship is communication with your customers whenever you sell you’ve got to communicate with your customers. Next one up lady, whatever would you like to know from me I’m about to start sharing some experiences with you you need to know something about me what do you need to know. What value am I going to give you I’m gonna give you knowledge on real practical situations, I think there’s always a lot of strategy but today we want to know a little bit we’re gonna go really practical okay.

Dependent on what you like why don’t you tell us at the end what was new today. The reason why I’m asking you for this is the following what you will run into many of these these groups is you will run into people who are sharing best practices with you, and some of you may take those best practices and go back and implement them and think to yourself that is now the law. And you’ve got to be very very careful with this they’re approximately are three really different kind of people that talk in front of you: a person who’s never done it but read about it in a blog post may have blogged about it may have even written a book about it, but actually has never done it okay we need to know if that person talks to us does it mean that that person doesn’t have great information not at all, it just means you need to know that, do you speak from personal experience are you creating anecdotes from what you’ve heard at other conferences. Second a person who has done it once or twice, commonly a VP of Sales or a CEO; again super valuable information they have done it before you and you need to listen to that, but the thing is they’ve only done it once or twice and what worked for them may not work for other people. And then and I’ll put me into it myself into the category and I own up to that over the next couple twenty to twenty-five minutes you have experts we do this again and again and again and again; we keep doing this we see the patterns that doesn’t mean that we’ve exactly a specialist in the market ,well we often know like okay this business works like that that business works like this we see the patterns. If you do not know who is giving you that counsel if you don’t know what the differences are you may mistake the first one for the third one and that is very valuable difference, so always in today’s world question Who am I taking advice and counsel from in this setting or from a blog post, beware. And all people have something to contribute but beware make sense if you a few pointers largest deal I personally close 52 million dollars, that was a deal I did we call a four W’s what technique what you nowadays would refer to as challenge you’re selling. Channels that you probably well know of is BT I use BT in order to sell Contiki software pretty much the the the one that you were referred to as the old BBC player, that was based on Contiki software that we sold to be the BBC channel for ITV and so on so that’s pretty much everybody down here use that. Consumer industry you’ll see in over in the US we worked a lot with like companies like dish DirecTV Warner Brothers Disney and so on that is where my experience comes from. Going into the Bay Area and starting to work for startups I became a VP of Sales I worked for seven VP’s of Sales seven before I became one in a slot of three years we were rotating VP of Sales as fast as we were missing and hitting quotas. I’ve been apologize for the bad word I don’t know what what is a good word for screwed that is not screwed, that I can say on stage what no no I got okay screw it it’s creative I got screwed over by CEOs out of packages who didn’t give me a promotion at the certain point in time where there was clearly committed only to come to the conclusion that that resulted in me missing out on a million dollars during the acquisition. For those of you who wrote yeah like understand stock options I’ve ran the portfolio or run it today we are among others representing Notion and and their portfolio companies we help them but we also help companies storm portfolio like five drive this morning we help we coach them on what we call go to market strategies.

And here’s what we see go wrong folks in general do not understand that the world has changed and it has changed radically! And so what we do we generally take on many companies start saying hey what do I do I need to start selling I need a new VP of Sales bringing the VP of Sales and VP of Sales starts working and as they work they start hiring people establish a comp plan establish quota, get the tool in get a good CRM in, and so just slowly but surely this thing starts to take shape. And generally it is you know not very well thought out it’s just put together with the best intentions by hard-working people.

Unfortunately it mimics building a 20-story building on top of one garage foundation it was never meant to build that big. And these things collapse on top of each other often at the cost of the VP of Sales in that they’re taking a round of funding with them, devaluation of the company and so on now some of you may go like oh that doesn’t happen to us. In essence that happens to nine out of ten companies whatever you’re comfortable with it happens to a lot of companies we need to rethink that; I’m gonna give you a few pointers and why things have changed so much. First of all my experience today is primarily based on a CVS in the range of up to $100,000 recurring revenue a year volume based sales we’re looking at at least doing like five or ten deals a month; lowest I can go is three. If you are cutting deals to at the 50k once a quarter per sales person you’re doing a few key accounts a year much of this doesn’t apply to this to you okay. That is deep Enterprise selling that is in a different direction, whether you sell 250k under a recurring revenue that doesn’t make you necessarily a SaaS, a hyper growth high velocity SaaS company.

SaaS business is based on three things: number one you probably need to have your software in the cloud. I say this because some people are shifting servers right now and call it the unaware over a cloud comes like no no that’s not what software as a service was intended, it is something that is different and you always see the recurrence of it but it’s not SaaS. SaaS number one is I got to serve my software in the cloud. Number two as I serve it I don’t provide a lot of value a price upfront I’m gonna draw this this out here and we’re going to call it the SaaS-o-meter in this SaaS-o-meter, on the left I’m having a perpetual hardware software sales three-year contracts, long-term selling okay customer buys it pays it, 30 days later some form of money in a bank, salesperson 30 days later drives BMW off the lot. Right that is that sits here perpetual if I go into the middle down here I’m sitting in SaaS in the SaaS industry what do we see recurring revenue streams, dollar value is split up. Ff I go further to the right I’m going SaaS monthly this down here is annually and down here we have a category that is developing rapidly SaaS two to three years. Now the two two-year three-year contracts are starting to develop companies who are making a big upfront commitment so just installing a SaaS service is no longer just installing like a little you’re like a chrome plug and it essentially means some activity needs to take place. These companies want to strike two to three-year contracts government as they are starting to buy a sales SaaS services they buy under two to three-year contracts. If I draw this analogy down here I am buying a car; what would the analogy be of this if I buy a car what will be the analogy of SaaS service be? At least if I go further to the right what is the next analogy lease on a shorter term, rent a Zipcar sits in there – right so rent and you know like Zipcar I could do like dependent on whether it’s by hour and so on but rent sits here. What sits here? Uber, taxi and we can argue and we is a great conversation to have those Uber sit here and then a taxi or there’s a taxi sit here which one is lower to the right; what we see on the left people by value if I buy hardware I do not get the impact of that thirty days later if I buy 12 million dollars at Cisco gear it’s gonna take a while for that is installed, assimilated inside inside the network. So when a buy is about a promise from you that, hey if you buy the service you’re gonna get this great impact very common in enterprise selling we even call that if you resell it to you we call it the value proposal, of a three-year return on investment or a five-year return on investment.

However on the right something different happens right down here I’m now you know starting to buy here just the software down here I’m starting to get it monthly, there’s one in here such monthly subscription model down here something special happens what am I buying here on the right in the world of software as a service go further to the right where do I end up with? Instant service pay-per-view usage and so on, so I’m going down here one above and I’m buying usage okay. There’s one more the next one is impact I’m essentially not only buying usage, I’m buying from new results for example the ad industry like companies like ad role live in this market hey thank you for your million dollar insertion order it’s nothing I can do with it until the ad gets surfed and then I start recognizing it – I’m actually buying the impact. This is what you see when you experience over you’re not buying a subscription of having a car available; I just need to go from point A and I’ll pay you when I get to point B right you’re buying the impact. In this world something radical has changed, if I buy products between the risk of the buyer how high is the risk on the buyer on this side? High you’re gonna get fired if you buy the wrong twelve million dollars worth of equipment what is the risk of the seller? Nothing Jacco can sell ice to Eskimos you got to see what do you get the dude man he is stole twelve million dollar worth of gear they don’t even using it they’re using it as door stoppers, that dude is a Rainmaker awesome!

Imagine you live in that world today that on Twitter would chase you back and would on some social media and annihilate your reputation overnight, yet 10 15 20 years ago that’s how I enterprise sales was done. That was what it was what happened we call these folks rain makers could sell anything to anyone.

Now in today’s world I’m sitting on the other side what is the risk of the buyer on this side and what is the risk of the seller, it’s reversed. The seller now carries most of the risk and the buyer carrier are hardly any risk this risk pattern that has shifted has essentially shifted the entire valuation of companies on how they’re selling, we just never change that we just fall to ourselves like look yo just keep selling. You see this because I can tell you right now if I look at your comp plan it will be rare that I see a comp plan that is not similar as show similarities to what the complan was ten years ago 50 years ago, and if I see how your recruiter works your recruiter has not sitting in here and said he like all this change I need to hire different people, no none of that well hiring the same people we’re compensating them approximately the same we’re running approximately the same VP of Sales and generally in alpha, who is trying to create this competitive behavior. We even call the person who contribute individual contributors, and that is the problem that we are facing.

Today I’m gonna demonstrate you very briefly to you in this that what was wrong with all this is that we never understood it and therefore we built the wrong model on the wrong assumptions we just rolled into it, now for the past 10 50 years we were benefiting from what we call a value proposition based on a challenge of sale that was so good that the seller the buyer actually didn’t care the value prop was very simple over the past decade, so if I hear you right, Jacco, I just had the financial crash in 2008, I’m about to place a three million dollar purchase order with an SAP in Oracle and you’re telling me since your Salesforce that you can sell me the same product and service for five thousand dollars a month. Yes I buy you why because my Capex just got wiped out post 2008, also times date Capex budget got wiped out nobody had Capex anymore so everybody had only one thing to buy like I still need my software and lo and behold SaaS was ready got maturity in the previous year rolled out and in America, boom fell straight into a ground of saturated material what we had to do simply was using low-cost resources todays you would refer to them as SDR AES, two-stage shields organization rolling through picking up the phone quickly setting up a meeting meeting gets handed over and we and all that the sales pitch was we sell the same as major software vendor at op x budget instead of Capex budget.

You would be if you’re a c-level officer you would be fired if you wouldn’t take that call at that point in time, I’m oversimplifying there’s always ‘ifs’ and ‘hows’ and stuff like that this is what’s thrill to companies so what tools were needed to make this really successful, oh you know what we probably need some some marketing software that can get the word out which company Eloqua Marketo; we probably the companies that we can start inside selling, oh we have a whole bunch of inside sales organizations and software programs and so suddenly all the tools that were supporting that started to flourish and to flourish yet today and what we’ve now seen is that model has fallen on its sword, to state sales organizations of large scale as the arts organizations no longer work, the Capex over Op x, everybody knows SaaS, you don’t have to convince CEO anymore CTO CMO that they need to go. And so the use of an uneducated least knowledgeable person into your organization as they are as the first point of contact with your customer no longer works. There are exceptions always, but they exceptions are no longer the norm they were known previously.

What I’m going to show you and one of them described to you is the difference between correlation and causation. Correlation means shark attacks are up and ice cream sales are up, they’re not connected they’re correlated because the weather is hot people go to the beach therefore one correlates if the other. Causation means that one causes the other. Point of view today most sales organizations are correlation based. I’m gonna depict that in a simple I’m gonna I’m gonna need some help and that help what I’m gonna need is I see a few women in the audience, so if the women could you pull out your iPhone I need you to help me calculate I’m gonna give you the women calculation so I see at least one two three you need to help me and then I need a few guys who just do the same calculation. We’re gonna take 1000 leads just in this case we’re using inbound model, on that I’m gonna convert on a conversion rate and I’ll pick 30 percent I’m gonna change the conversion rate to which is to the next one at 20 percent, I’m gonna create a win rate, call it one in five I’m gonna close at a price of let’s say fifteen thousand dollars. Let’s keep it at that I can go further by let’s keep it at that so if I generate this calculate out to me how much annual recurring revenue this would create this is an annual contract value, thirty percent, twenty percent, twenty percent, fifteen thousand times a thousand how much sales does that give me give or take? Okay so now I’m going to take the same thousand leads I’m gonna make that 0.32 I’m gonna make that zero point two two I’m gonna win one in four and a half, so that that needs to be 2 divided by nine, and I’ve run into that I’m gonna sell this that’s about twenty percent discount, and we’re gonna sell is that eighteen thousand dollars you calculate that one out. Okay ladies what was that the number on the first one? 180k, thank you. Okay so all times times 1/4 and 1/2 times 2 / do the total a thousand, times point 32 are you on it did somebody else help them out 281 it’s close enough I don’t know if the exact number but it depicts it ok. I want show you the following small changes, big impact, few percentage points big impact, this is just what happens before the sale if we start adding the metrics, behind this all, the churn, the cross sell and so on, this number starts to to get even bigger and what you quickly are going to see is that down here you get double your sales, in general if the other factors in between.

Now why is this? What is this caused by? It is caused by that these numbers are multiplications of each other, and that is the problem that most organizations don’t realize. If I ask and if I go back to my life as a sales VP and the person asked me to Jacco yet it you know like an X million dollar quota let’s say ten million dollar easy number quota how are you gonna meet it. I would go like mmm I’m gonna get like a 1 to 2 million dollars from BT I’m gonna get one to two million dollars from AT&T, so it puts me about between 3 & 4, then my superstar is gonna bring me in about 2 million dollars on a big deal, so that I’m about like somewhere around 6, and then the rest of the team is going to do something about 4 million dollars. And they’re gonna close about 5 or 10 deals. And what I’m doing is I’m adding up numbers, I’m not multiplying, I’m adding up if. I ask VP of Marketing hey you generate a thousand leads for me the VP of Marketing is gonna say oh we’re gonna get 200 from this trade show, we’re gonna get 100 from this particular event, the particular asset is going to generate this amount of leads and they start adding, up it’s an additive culture. Science doesn’t work like additive, science works as a product and that is a result if we start multiplying small changes start to compound on each other, and that is the trick that many organizations don’t understand because I’m telling you if I want to double my number, because my number is growing, now what most sales organizations will tell they whole look at marketing thank you double my work a double my leads, I need more leads. And it was not the leads the volume of least that’s a problem now how do we make these changes is way more interesting because if I ask an SDR and if I now put these numbers here down here right and I say like hey how are we going to increase, okay so what we see down here this one is in generally marketing, and one is an SDR these two and generally are an AE’s responsibilities, and then generating you know this amount of revenue give or take if I ask an SDR can you improve from point two to conversion rate 2.22 given the right tools and the bill that it seems to be a reasonable ask, if I ask him they got a double create the amount of SQL they’re gonna go whoa whoa cannot do that; small percentage point can be changed.

Now what I can do is I can deploy a best practice on how to improve that. This product is the thinking and product essentially moves us away from the artistic point of view where we normally looking at sales as an art, I got it it’s a black skill that I was given I have no idea but I was never given the black skills, I closed some of these big deals but it was not a black skill okay okay I have never had a customer who sat in Holland one of the last big contract was a contract of Jeff Bezos organization Amazon, for a couple million dollars they didn’t come up to me and said Jacco oh dude excellent negotiation, superb your pitch wonderful. You know what they say you listened, you’re the first person who listen you’re the first person who cared, you’re the first person who actually took notes when I was talking, because true sales is not just about negotiation the person who spoke this morning with negotiate really valid points in negotiation those are valid points we’re trying to avoid all of that because it’s the last thing that happened. Negotiation shouldn’t be opposite side at the table if I ask you finish you put another word next to negotiation the most common word I hear is hostage negotiation. You’re sitting on opposite side of the table is the wrong thing to do you need to sit on the same side of the table I’m as the gentleman correctly stated is about trading. I can tell you one thing if you have a sales organization the drive that lives on about 20 28 29 30 32 year olds and you need to teach them negotiation and avoiding discount that most likely will not be a successful avenue, it’s just not built that way, we sit on these calls we list them they enter negotiation and the first thing they say is 20% discount why do we get from zero to 20 they’re not skilled to this level of confrontation.

So we say we need to change a few things let me show you a few of the things that we can change in this journey in this journey of in order to make this successful, we look back and we say is like look if I draw this as a form of a sales funnel, then in this sales funnel what matters most to a customer are a few key moments we don’t need a helicopter our customers all through the first starts last touch every touch, oh they opened up slide four of the presentation get ready something exciting is gonna happen. They’re on at 25 seconds are you checking 28 the new record like look up right why are we doing this this is not what we need to do and so instead what we says I look back on your life, look back to 2017 and think to yourself was it a great year or was it a bad year. If you think of it yourself was a great year and probably baby was born, maybe a new lover came into your life, y’all like I see some of the kids the other day that spokes is like a man I had remember a steamy night of you know what, that was really good in 2017 I’m like yes love it, I’m older I don’t recall any more. But I do I have unique moments and these unique moments add up and at the end of the day they add up these few moments they’ve got like it was a great year, I had a promotion and so on and so forth. Likewise if you’re on for hopefully you didn’t lose a person that it was beloved to you you know stuff like that to make it a better and this is okay not every year needs to be a great year what you’re not doing is counting the days I had 265 days they were awesome I had about 12 days I mean and I had 82 eight days they were negative. You don’t think about that you only think about the moments that truly matter and so too does your customer here.

I will give it to you the seven key moments that truly truly matter to a customer they’re not comforted that doesn’t mean that they have to apply to everyone, some of you may say oh we have a different moment. These are just generally the seven key moments moment number one you need to reach out to your customers, not because they’re a fit but because they have a pain. Most people reach out to customers because they’re a fit so I’ve asked them why did you call me oh I noticed that that you are the title at the company size in a vertical industry that we sell to. Congratulations do you want a meeting 50 minute meeting each other why in the world do I want to have a meeting I was literally waking up this morning I was looking at my diary I’m like yeah empty let’s get some meetings today right nobody wants meetings, so that’s not gonna happen. However if you reach out to a customer who have the pain and as I roll plate is earlier with a company called the crew, reach out to them and say I noticed that on your recent trade show that you were still doing leads manually, that you have four events coming up and that one of this is gonna be the biggest event that you ever had and reach out to people who are a pain not a fit.

Second moment conversation not qualification. First thing that we do in here simply as the are nae may ask you how big is your company how many people are you in seven sales, how many people you have in marketing, in other words how many seats do you have? I can tell you right now I can BANT you budget Authority need and timeline, I can do that online find my chat box and for those of you who we sometimes test it happens I get an SDR on the phone may I ask are you currently on on Salesforce CRM? Yes okay they just want to make sure they can sell to me, check. May I ask how many seats are you looking for eight, okay they’re right there qualifying me well the problem with qualification is there’s nothing in it for me as a buyer. I mean there’s a great value in it for the seller but nothing for us buyer; moment number two don’t qualify have a conversation thank you for coming in today what brought you in. Oh you’re looking for something have a conversation.

Number three discovery not sales pitching prescription before diagnosis is malpractice people it’s no longer allowed, so what we need to do we need to ask our customers questions learn about their business with the intent not to sell them but with the intent to solve their problem because I can tell you buyers today can smell that you’re selling like a mile away, the first thing that we always have to do in every training class is like okay who’ve you had training before oh, oh we have to unwind the whole bunch of BS from you that you have no absolutely no idea about they all start selling selling selling selling at any given point in time they essentially sells when you got to stop that you got a diagnose luring your customer understand make a proper recommendation on what is right for them not right for you; do that and what is right for you will come to you.

Fourth one trade not negotiate the gentleman who discussed negotiating hit the nail on the head it’s about trading not negotiating; for this you operate a service a service and you have a SaaS price there is no discounting in SaaS service. It doesn’t exist the discount came from when I sold it to you for three million dollars like five years ago and I’m giving it you at twelve thousand dollars a month a year whatever it is right now, that’s the discount okay yeah like I don’t know where you get the discount from. That doesn’t mean I cannot adjust the price it just simply means that I have to trade, oh I understand yeah sure you do working with budget okay but okay now may I ask if I’m able to help you with the price range that you have given would you be able to to introduce me in to other people that can benefit from our solution. Those are hot sql’s that are gonna come in they are valuable to me right, immediately trade came interest and I didn’t say did you refer because refer instigates something of like my coach after four years of blood sweat and tears he gave me a recommendation. This is not recommendation and referral this is do you know anyone else who can benefit from our service very specific words but very much needed.

Number five key moment, orchestrate not kickoff most of you install the service and the first objective of the person in the customer success organization do the onboarding, yet something magically changed. What changed was on Friday when we were discussing and trading the deal you didn’t want to lose leverage that’s why you didn’t tell me all your budget that’s why you didn’t tell me who I needed to talk to you. On Monday we’re in it together buddy you and me we’re on the same goal right now you’re not successful, I’m not successful that relationship has changed. If I didn’t come to you and say let me onboard you okay won’t gets onboarded, what we need to do is hey look let’s get sit back together I know you wanted to have this date. Well that date was a little bit flexible you know we wanted to make sure what really is the date is XYZ great and actually you know Johnny, he’s actually a little bit, we had to convince him so you probably need to convincing him so so you get all these new details, you need to get those the deal has changed the relationship has changed, and therefore you can redo the deal. Therefore you need to orchestrate not just do the onboarding.

Number four, usage we think it’s about usage but you just mean it’s for you. Oh we have great usage the usage doesn’t mean anything for the customer usage is not like how’s the product, I got a great usage out of it; like great what does that mean? Customers want impact not usage.

Final moment we talk about upsell cross-sell essentially it’s about growing together, how are we gonna grow together? When you talk to your customers say hey are you ready to renew I’m sure I got value out of all you talk to them is there an area of growth all these things seems to be primarily words, but I’m telling you if it comes out of your mouth and you think about it then you start doing it negotiating, closing, pitching, qualifying, those words are no longer valid in today’s world of said customers reject it and when they recognize it in your behavior they’re done of it.

Now what I show and demonstrate down here is simply the one of the blueprints and in these blueprints we see down here how can we improve simply the discovery call opening, up of the call where we listen to the tonation of someone’s voice great you want to talk about soccer talk about soccer your role during the opening of the call is understand which voice belongs to which person so you know who is the decision-makers if that person speaks that value may be more valuable also we establish baseline, is that person very excited and then talk like me on Red Bull all the time then you don’t know if the tonation is up and down you need to know what it’s the tonation of somebody is. So if it changes you know something happened. Appreciate you taking the time let me check the fuel we still good for 30 minutes well the end goal of today’s call is if you see what you like we would move forward with a demo, does that sound like a good call great opening up the call as we step to the agenda to achieve that end goal we then go through a proper diagnosed situation question pain some of you recognizes as spin selling. Following that situation and this is where we are very different than spin selling we say so if I got it right you currently have this problem; you currently have this situation this situation causing you that problem did I get that right? Yes empathize, it’s not the first I hear that we hear this all the time. Then we go say like now may I ask know what what kind of impact is is causing you layer one I can also ask may ask layer two we have seen other customers who have experienced this impact have you seen the same? Layers sense of layers of question how far are you going in. Number three well it sounds like that you are losing money increasing money that is a headache, is there a particular day that you want this fixed by for those of you who are just here for a trick I’m gonna give you the following sentence it’s gonna change your forecast: yes I need this by January 15th… here comes the response what happens if you miss that date that simple question will change the conversation I’m gonna say what happens if you miss that date it’s a simple question it starts a great conversation. In the end I can have that ability it’s okay we have a solution for you you know blah blah blah do your thing whatever it is you wagon I’ll refer in lieu of time to do that to some of our online materials that essentially connect the neck meeting. What we see down here if I look back at CR 3 which in this case was the win ratio in order to do win rate you’re right if I want to go from 1 to 5 to 1 to 4 and a half, this is a way of doing it this we call a blueprint and a blueprint is a way that we can start looking at it doesn’t mean that it’s holy, it’s just a starting position you want to improve it? Improve it. you have to sales people talking to each other listening to each other’s call AI analyzing whether in we’re on point what you see here today with technologies like a refract we can now listen to the call we can determine where there are in the call and we can see did they open up the call correctly no. And in most cases as you probably will well know people don’t they start closing way too late and so on and so forth as you start too late the problems that’s occurred see to make a lease deal goes dark they come to us is there like 20% of our deals goes dark. can you fix those yes but we had got to go back we can’t fix them because they’re dark.

As I close up before I go there let me give an opportunity to ask a question anybody wants to ask a question. This entire thing about saying have a conversation saying oh this customer had the same problem, this may make you come across as a leaky ship when it comes to confidentiality, so where’s the line?

Have the conversation, care for your customer have the conversation what you’ll find is that if you ask that question straight upfront which is a common occurrence that people go straight into much detail may I ask how is your current workflow second question that comes out of their mouth right you go like who am I talking to like why am I describing my entire workflow and what’s wrong with it with you. Right in that case we in generally say educate them use other scenarios first to prompt them saying I’ve worked with a lot of customers like you before and what I’ve noticed that in generally they have these three issues, now if I talk about these three issues would that resonate with you yes. Now I prompt it I used a prompting situation in order to get them started as soon as they know that what that I know what I’m talking about more and more details are gonna come out of this okay. Most of this came down to conversation and conversation is a great way to start if I look today in our world and I say do we need more doctors, probably I’m not a doctor it will take me too long do we need more engineers more apps, I do not know if that’s what we need I think we have plenty of them and the thing we can always benefit from more again I’m no longer an app developer if I look around me and not too far in my own country than a United States right now I clearly see that what we have as a problem is communication.

The world’s biggest problem is that people aren’t talking on both sides and not listening to each other. Folks, all of you marketing and sales professionals that is our forte we are great communicators, we want to change the world let’s change the way how we communicate, let’s stop selling to customer, and instead start listening and as we ask them for questions. With that I have two things, A, previous speaker left glasses and B, I do want to use the opportunity I have rarely seen this good of an event this nicely organized at this great of a location so why don’t we give a start with giving great round of applause back to James Ski for organising.

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